2012-11-12
2012-11-20
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or are we more likely to see topless pictures of speaker boehner before we see a willingness to compromise. >> i wish i could get that imagine out of my head. >> i apologize but that's the reality. >> maybe yours. everybody is saying, look, john boehner has talked about the possible of raising revenues, he looks really reasonable now. he hasn't said no. the big question is, we've talked about this since the election, you and i and others, that what's at stake here is whether boehner can actually cut a deal and still remain speaker of the house. that is there isn't a mutiny, there isn't an opening on the right for a rebellion against him. he could not do that last time around in the summer of 2011 when the president tried to reach this grand bargain with him. it was clear to people working with him and in the room, democrats and members of the administration, that he himself would have cut that deal and would have, you know, walked away and held the president's hand and said look what we can do when we're adults in washington. but he was told by members of his own party, if you do that, our

in the republican caucus? boehner is listening to others, like all the republican governors this week, and bill kristol and others are saying do we really want to be the party -- defending eleva tax cuts for people with car elevators? if i were obama, i would get them in a room and keep them there. >> but it is interesting when you watch what is going on right now. obama does this very nice balance between "i am open to everything, but i am drawing one red line for millionaires --" >> i don't hear him changing on that. >> he is not. the ones who are being really tough for the democrats in the house and the senate. they are the ones doing the public posturing for him. >> i think also that john boehner does not have a strong hand. he has got a caucus that has dug in its heels on any kind of compromise. i saw this picture of john boehner, this cartoon character, holding a football and saying to president obama "trust me." >> there was an election on november 6 and the democrats did not do that badly. who is here? >> everybody has got to give. >> it really is true. you cannot tax your way out of th

refused to consider higher tax rates. timing is also a sticking point here. here is john boehner this weekend. >> 2013 should be the year to begin to solve our debt through tax reform and entitlement reform. together we should avert the fiscal cliff in a manner that ensures 2013 finally is that year. >> no accident, by the way, it was boehner who did the republican response to the president this weekend. the president holds the most leverage in the next two months, directly after the election and before tax rates expire. when the threat of a tax increase on the middle class hangs over the negotiations. republicans would like to try out the negotiations to see the political climate is better for them in the next congress. the big question is how much did the white house learn from the failed debt talk to 2011? will the president bypass leader ship and begin to try to deal directly with the republican senators who have sounded the most open to compromise. >> i think there is a deal. the ying and yang of this is we know there have to be revenues. look, i haven't met a wealthy republ

and political breakthrough? then if president obama and john boehner can rise above and get a deal done for the fiscal cliff, there is a lot of money that could be made in stocks. and why shouldn't top military and business leaders maintain an honorable code of conduct? isn't it better to have a moral center? general david petraeus is a great man. but he made, unfortunately, a great mistake. first up, are we on the verge for american oil revolution? according to the international energy agency, the u.s. will overtake saudi arabia as the world's largest oil producer that before the year 2020. but -- don't get your hopes completely up as the epa could block this fantastic market-driven advance. nobody better to talk about it is john hofmeister. john, it is a pleasure to have you here. now, is it credible, first of all the report, we will overtake the saudis? >> report is credible. the iea is smart, good analysts. we have the reserves, no question we have the reserves. in the ground today. number two, we have the technology to get the reserves out of the ground. and number three, we have t

closing loopholes. that is a reputation of what john boehner suggested in the days since the president has been re-elected. >> that's totally right. a key point, the simpson-bowles tax idea is kind of a magic pony, right. everyone agrees in the ab instruct, we can bring down the rates, close loopholes and deductions and raise revenue. if that's such a wonderful idea how come it's only come up now. how come no one has done it. the reason is because it's really, really hard politically. once you get into the specifics. if you're trying to tie all the revenue to this abstract tax reform idea you're going to get into a position where the revenue is about never going to happen because once you get into reality it doesn't materialize. >> you have to do both, john. you have to do -- you have to raise the the rates and close loopholes to get the amount -- >> just raise the rates. >> you can't raise the rates high enough to produce $1.6 trillion. >> you can get $900 billion from expiring the bush tax cuts. >> and where do you get the other $700 billion from from. >> do a little reform and cut the r

boehner. i'm not sure that i see it yet. the president said you have to go to the clinton area, 36% top marginal rate. and you said a few loopholes that's fine but not the real battle we should be undertaking. am i correct? >> now boehner we're back to% where we were before the election in some respects. there is a significant core of the republican party that simply will not raise taxes under any sixths. they will not raise rates. they still feel that they are pledged to grover norquist, maybe not to the american people. not to the constitution, but to grover norquist. therefore they're not going to go along--even if boehner wants them to go along. both sides the president and democrats on one side, boehner and the republicans are basically maneuvering for bargaining position for what is going to be a long-term negotiation. >> eliot: they're just shadow boxing, i think that's exactly right. i wonder and i'm trying to assess--i have no knowledge of what goes on inside the republican party but i'm trying to discern if boehner has more strength now than he did when this negotiation took p

a big deal or grand bargain with the republic speaker john boehner. during election year we haven't heard any of that because they were fighting so much. now the president saying how he wants a deal. speaker boehner all recent days been saying all the right things. it's interesting that today the president didn't really move an inch toward the republicans and speaker boehner had some comments that suggested he is not ready to move towards the president. take a listen thrrvettle are ways to put revenue on the table without increasing tax rates. we have talked about this now for over a year. you could -- there is all kinds of information and data out there. but, getting into the specifics of that at this point would not be conducive to trying to come to an agreement with the white house. >> so the bottom line is that neither side has -- president at his news conference today or john boehner in his conference have gotten into the tough specifics about what's going to happen to taxes, what's going to happen in terms of spending cuts to try to get a big debt cut maybe up to $4 trillion

with abc news last week, house speaker john boehner said this about immigration reform. quote, while i believe it's important for us to secure our borders and enforce our laws, i think a comprehensive approach is long overdue and i'm confident myself, the president and others can find the common ground to take care of this issue once and for all. later he tried to backout after he was called out by conservative tea party bloggers as well as conservative members of congress. this a sign that the tea party isn't quite over yet? >> and it's not. and i think sometimes the people who are left are the most extreme. and they're going the double down. and again, we're seeing this in indiana, for example, in texas, a little bit in georgia. so the people who are left are going to give it their all. but where we're going to see in the next two to three years is the pressure of needing to get electoral gains there is only so many elections you can lose before you change course. and that's going happen. maybe they can hang on for another two years. but beyond that, the math doesn't add up for repub

john boehner offered a compromise in week in which he says i am willing to put more revenue on to the table but with through closing deductions end gd loopholes not through raising rates. can you accept a compromise as part of the whole deal that doesn't raise the push tax rate on the wealthy? >> how much revenue are we going to generate as part of a balanced package. in their framework they assume the amount of revenue as if we started tax reform from a 39 percent rate. that is part of their built in assumption. i am all for doing tax reform. the issue is from what starting point. i think the bowl starting point which assumies that revenue fro 39 percent is the right way to go to get the mix they got in hitting their deficit reduction target. if what speaker boehner was saying he was truly willing to get office ready we begin to work with one another. if what he is simply saying is what republicans used to say which is we are going to lower rate on the wealthy and that will somehow generate -- >> he was talking about closing loopholes and deductions. >> the jury is out stil

. >> paul: house speaker john boehner extends an olive branch, how much will they give >> the american welcome have spoken and they've reelected president obama and reelected a majority in the house of representatives. a mandate for us to find a way to work together on the solutions to the challenges that we all face as a nation. >> that's house speaker john boehner vowing to work with president obama on the challenges facing the nation the first the fiscal cliff, a toxic combination of tax increases and automatic spending cuts especially in defense that could take effect january 1st. so, we pointed out in the last segment, republicans held the house with minimal losses despite a big democratic year. can boehner think, look, got as much mandate as the president? >> i think he should absolutely think that, paul. the president made clear, didn't really run on the second term agenda and didn't talk about it much. i'll tell you what the mandate is right now, the mandate is that fiscal cliff, the bipartisan mandate. >> paul: to go off it is the mandate or not to go off. >> i think the stock

. john boehner doesn't have the leverage he used to have. on a conference call he told house republicans they had to avoid the nasty showdowns that mark so much of the last two years. senate republican leader mitch mcconnell was the number one obstructionist in the president's first term. now he tells "the wall street journal" he'll do whatever it takes to get a deal. i'd be willing to pay the ransom if e we thought we were going to get the hostage out. but the hostage is what? entitlement spending. mcconnell's intention, he's willing to agree to a dollar of new taxes for every dollar in cuts. what a difference an election makes. >> i'm going to ask a question on the stage. they seau had a real spending cuts deal, 10 to 1. spending cuts to tax increases. spooker, you're already shaking your head. but who on this stage would walk away from that deal? would you raise your hand about not raising taxes. >> remember in 2011 republicans would not take a 10 to 1 tax cut deal? now today mitch mcconnell is willing to do a 1 to 1 deal. republicans lost all of their leverage in this election. they

. the president still insisting letting the bush tax cuts expire. meanwhile, house speaker john boehner remaining opposed to raising these tax cuts. do you think because of a lot of attention and oxygen being taken up in washington, d.c. with what's taking place with petraeus and allen there will be a way for like minds to come to a come prose mize. >> you're absolutely right, thomas. the media coverage is on these emerging facts on petraeus and other cases. the answer is, i think so, i hope so. we're not there yet. we have six weeks to work this out. two parts of the fiscal cliff, are across the board cuts. we'll be able to come one an alternative way to reduce the deficit in a smarter way to avoid that. the tax piece is a lot tougher and a lot bigger, the president as you know, we should immediately act, we the congress, to extend tax relief for 98% of the american people. in fact, taxpayers would get tax relief on first 250,000 in income. if we want to address the long-term deficit, it has to do with the cliff. speaker boehner needs to come forward and put that on the table as the president ha

't, toure. some complementary things said from an aide close to speaker boehner saying it was a very productive, positive meeting there with the president at the white house. the most interesting thing, though, from the boehner aide was that john boehner believes there is not enough time from now until the end of the year to actually have a grand bargain. there's enough time, though, to put together the framework for what a grand bargain would look like. essentially have the top lines agreed to that by sometime in 2013 you could have both the chambers, the senate and the house, come together on some substantial tax reform, entitlement reform, and get rid of the sort of automatic cuts that we see as a sequester, and the tax increases and have a mechanism you can replace them with. listen to the congressional leaders in their photo op in the white house before thanksgiving that they had today. >> we've put revenue on the table, as long as it's accompanied by significant spending cuts. >> we have a cornerstones of being able to work something out. we're both going to have to give up som

. igor, back to more serious stuff we ought to be talking about. so john boehner is saying hey we can have -- we can find some common ground here and republicans are quick to say yeah, let's follow the boehner thing. when you look at what boehner is saying about how to avoid the fiscal cliff he's not saying we're going to agree with president obama on anything yet right? >> not yet. at least publicly, he's just reheating the old romney proposal which is if you close deductions, that's where you get your revenue. not from letting the high end tax cuts expire. the high-end tax cuts expire. what obama had been campaigning on and what voters want overwhelmingly. so you know, the administration has actually been fairly optimistic about where boehner is and negotiating with boehner and negotiating maybe with some of the rank and file who are more likely to come to an agreement. maybe go into the senate. and doing this very publicly. they're meeting with a lot of groups with labor groups, with business groups and they've

%? this is a very clear issue and the first challenge for john boehner. 90% vs. 2%. he is -- they have sided with 2%. can he get them to give 90% of americans a tax break? if not, the republican party is in more trouble. >> ami sheree this order -- editorial saying that the republicans have no foothold in -- and little room to negotiate and the president will drive a bargain. >> it would have to say this. republicans are not dealing from strength. they were in 2010 when they elected 63 tea party freshman and i could block or pass anything they wanted. john boehner was to admit that they do not win and if they do not when you are not dealing with a position of strength. president obama is. >> 1042 to five days until the next presidential election. host: hillary clinton would be the best prepared candidate. one who has lived in the u.s. senate, a woman who knows virtually every head of state in the world and is a strong opinion of the inclusion of -- social inclusion. i come close but will not talk about that until hillary -- people decide what to do. >> what is your decision making process moving fo

to be revenues as well. second, he's rejecting the john boehner approach which is boehner saying i'll agree to revenues as long as they come as a result of economic growth. in other words, we won't legislate changes in taxes. we'll hope that revenues go up. he's saying no, that won't work for me. you're not going to legislate spending cuts. this is the president talking. not legislate revenue changes as well. >> bill: all right. so there are -- the most immediate decision maybe facing the congress is that as you point out, all of the bush tax cuts expire. which means not only the taxes -- tax cuts for the wealthy expire, the tax cuts for those making under $250,000 a year expire as well. so the president said friday all right, the senate has already passed a bill which would give extended tax cutless for the 98%, those making under $250,000. but let the ones for the wealthier people and defined as over $250,000 expire. and he challenged the house of representatives to pass that. what do you think -- so this is a real -- to

in the -- in really tough are the democrats in the house and senate. >> boehner as a caucus that has dug in its heels on any kind of compromise. the picture of the john boehner, this cartoon character, holding a football, saying to president obama, "trust me it." >> you know, there was an election on november 6, and the democrats did not do that badly. who gives here? >> everybody has got to give. >> you say it and say and say, but you cannot tax your way out of this debt and you cannot slash expenses and get out of this and get rid you have got to do both. >> someone gradually. >> president seems to be offering a two-for-one deal, for every $1 of tax increase, he will cut taxes by two dollars. simpson-bowles wanted a one-to-3 ratio. publicans 10. -- republicans want zero. >> business community does not want us to go over the cliff. >> what the republicans amenable to increases in taxes -- >> use the word "revenue." >> you had nancy pelosi taking the position -- $1 million, not $250,000. john mccain has suggested make it $500,000. that is where the movement is going to come, with that number. >> is t

hand in the publican caucus? boehner is listening to others, like vulnerable bunn -- ththe billlican governors, and kristol is saying do we really defending tax cuts people with car elevators. this is not the position n they i weree obama, i would just get them in a room there.p them >> but it is interesting when watch what oing on ght now. obama does th very nice sort between the "i am open to everything" and "i am drawg g one red line, for millionaires --" >> i don't hear him changing on that. he is not treated the people tesd are being really the house and senate. the ones who are doing the public posturing for him. boehnernk also that have a strong hand. he has a caucus that has dug in its heels on any kind of compromise. i saw a picture of john boehner, this cartoon holdingter, john ehner the football and saying to me."a "trust >> there was an election on november 6 and the democrats did the parade who gis here? -- did not do that at e. who gives here? >> everybody has to giveve. >> it is true. of cannot tax your way out cannot slash you out of this get debt. you have to do both

of bro-mans going on with john boehner. >> my understanding is material is speaker boehner's birthday. >> i we will talk to senator sanders when we come back. and the elbow of the day of i have to be honest, it's ridiculous today. good luck tryinging (vo) now, it's your turn. (vo) connect with the young turks with cenk uygur. >> it's go time. >> he went the and talked to his donors. he thinks president obama won the election and we have stap of it. >> the president's captain capain did was focus on certain members of his base coalition given extraordinary financial gifts from the government and then work very aggressively to turn them out to vote. >> all those gifts he gave the constituencies. ly hissed hispanics blacks, young voters specific young voters getting cont cention for free. wonder who his views on younger voters let alone women voters and he had this jab. >> what the president did is he gave them twoa thing, one he gave them a big gift on inigration with the dream act amnesty program. number two put

today. >> chris: president obama and speaker boehner sounding upbeat about prospects to cut a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. after the panel and congressional leaders met at the white house, rhetoric was reassuring. the question is: is it real? do you get a sense, bob, this is the subject of your new book, that they do see or beginning to see a path to compromise or are they trying to reassure the nervous consumers before the christmas holidays? nervous investors because the stock market has gone down 1,000 points. >> symp nervous about this. the next six weeks could be the six weeks that shook the united states if they don't fix this. there is clearly a new move. the way they will this is hostage exchange. otherwise, republicans are determined not to let the tax rate goes up. the president is determined or is determined to get more revenue. and it's possible to do this. and the president is going along with some idea of entitlement reform that we are going to actually cut spending. this is really -- they are going to have to -- they are lagerhead on the tax issue. i'm not sure ho

they already agreed to that. i think you heard john boehner say that already. we've had votes in the senate where we've actually gotten rid of tax credits. i think that's a given. and i think the vast majority of americans agree with that. the question is how do you do that and how do you allow taxes to rise at the same time you fix the real problem? and the real problem is uncontrolled entitlement spending and a government that has grown massively. not just under this administration, under republican administration. >> let me turn to senator schumer on this point. >> so you have to approach both sides of it. >> let me turn to senator schumer. i'm going to ask you the same question. if the mandate is compromised, what do democrats have to be prepared to accept as a painful outcome in order to achieve compromise? >> well, i agree with you, the mandate is compromise. that's why we have a divided house and senate. and i think if the house stands for anything it's cut government spending, as tom coburn said, and i think we're going to have to do more of it. we heard the mandate in 2010, where i

, that $1.6 trillion, is twice the amount of revenue that he and boehner put on the table last summer. it's a clear sign to the left that the president has stopped beginning his negotiations from the middle ground, something democrats have often complained about with this president. afl-cio president said he's confident that the president is not going to fold. >> the president led with that notion of protecting the middle class. are we going to collectively stand up and make sure that workers get a fair shake in all of this? absolutely we are. do we believe that the president is committed to that same thing? absolutely we do. will the president show today he's willing to go over the fiscal cliff if reboundians don't make the deal they are satisfied with. in a new pew poll, 50% will not reach an agreement in time. 53% are assuming republicans will be more to blame if no deal is struck. but yesterday minority leader mitch mcconnell, who met with the three gop freshmen, new senators, will join the repub c republican conference, struck a hard line when it came to tax rates. >> in politics th

to figure out the fiscal cliff. is speaker boehner ready to make a deal anytime soon? >>> plus, major news for big business. the justice department hits bp with the biggest criminal penalty ever assessed on a corporation for the 2010 gulf oil spill. >>> and so much for the ideas that twinkies last forever. bankruptcy breaks a big-time baker. >>> good morning from washington. it's friday, november 16, 2012. this is "the daily rundown." i'm luke russert in for chuck todd who hasn't worked hard enough at all this entire election campaign, he's now going to asia to cover the president's trip. former cia director david petraeus will testify in the benghazi attacks before the senate intelligence committee. he just wrapped up testifying on the house side. petraeus' questioning comes as he now finds himself under investigation by the agency he once led. acting director michael morell has ordered the inspector general to investigate whether he used agency resources including security details, private jets, and special accommodations to facilitate his affair with paula broadwell. officials say the c

. >> chris: let's talk about taxes that got most of the attention. congressman van hollen, john boehner offered a compromise this week where he said yes, i am willing to put more revenue on the table but through closing deductions, ending loopholes, not through raising rates. can you accept a compromise as part of this whole deal that doesn't raise the bush tax rate on the wealthy? >> well, here is the issue. how much revenue are we going to generate part of a balanced package? i take my lead on this from simpson-bowles and their framework. in their framework, they assume the amount of revenue as if you started tax reform from a 3% rate. that is part -- 39% rate. that's part of their built-in assumption. i am all for doing tax reform. the issue is from what starting point. the simpson-bowles starting point which assumes the revenue from 39% is the right way to go to get the mix that they got in hitting their deficit reduction target. but look, if what the speaker boehner was saying is that he is truly willing to get what we consider congressional budget office revenue, we can work with

boehner, who have already openly said, no increases in tax rates? >> well, you have to splinter off some republicans, in the senate it will be easier because you just have to get to 60. you might pass the december 31st deadline where you have a few more democrats in the senate. but the problem is always going to be the house. i think there may be a bargain in the -- in the side of coming to republicans and saying, here are cuts. but the price of those cuts will be that 2%. republicans will face a very tough choice in just a very short time. are they the ones that are going to be responsible for giving 98% of americans tax hikes? do the republicans want to be known as the party that raised your taxes for everybody but 2%? >> right. and i think, martin -- >> so, the 2% solution may be a noose around the republicans' neck. >> i think the republicans have little leverage. not just for that reason but a couple of other reasons. if you consider the fact that taxes are at 15% of gdp, spending is at 24%, even the paul ryan budget proposes we only reduce spending to 20% of gdp. that means five pe

an optimistic note about the way forward, as did speaker boehner after the meeting. >> my hope is that this is going to be the beginning of a fruitful process where we're able to come to an agreement that will reduce our deficit in a balanced way. >> to show our seriousness, we have put revenue on the table as long as it's accompanied by significant spending cuts. >> nbc's mike viqueira joins us live from the white house. mike, are there any signs, i have to put this to you, that the president may be able to persuade republicans at least to maintain the bush tax cuts on those making less than $250,000 a year? is there any sign that he's going to be able to persuade them on that? >> reporter: well, i think that he would be able to persuade them to extend those tax cuts, but he may not be able to persuade them to decouple them from those making more than $250,000 a year, martin. i don't mean to be flip, but that does remain at the end of the day here after the big root velt room photo-op the main sticking point. it's clear democrats feel they have the upper hand as do democrats h

cuts. the sequester has been called off. mr. boehner would like a down payment on entitlements. i don't see that happening. to me remember it used to be 3-1 or 4-1 spending cuts to revenue increases. right now it looks to me like it's 10-1. 10-0. $10 of revenue hikes and no spending cuts, jimmy pethokoukis. >> i think what we're going to get at the end of the day, you're going to get a lot of tax increases, and then you're going to get a lot of promises about caps and mechanisms. be careful of the word "process." there's going to be a process in place for looking at further spending cuts. or entitlement reform. but that's all going to be like tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the 12th of never. what we're going to get right away are tax increases in an economy that's going to be really slow. it was slow last year, slow before. the economic reports out today, terrible. and we're going to try a little experiment about raising taxes in a lousy economy. hop it works. >> jared, jimmy's got a point. the industrial production number, no matter how you slice it, with the hurricane or without

skaur enough votes to implement an austerity budget so now he's back to help john boehner secure enough votes versus the president to press for an austerity budget, is that right? >> yeah, that's correct, martin. it's interesting, there's a lot of criticism saying paul ryan's vision for an american budget was routinely rejected flat out by voters a little more than a week ago. so why will he have such an impact in terms of the fiscal cliff negotiations? and the reason is that paul ryan, despite the presidential loss, continues to be the ideological godfather of the current republican budget -- >> but, luke, he just got ripped to shreds. he just got pulverized in the election. in fact, so many of his ideas, he had to go quiet on because they were so deficient and attacked during the presidential campaign. yet there you are now telling our audience he's back and republicans have him as their -- one of their main stakeholders. >> he's very much still an important player within the house republican conference. so much so that speaker boehner when it came to having a daily meeting about the

boehner. cut it loose so they can go christmas shopping, senator mcconnell. it's what the people voted for. that's why they voted for me. that's the president talking. we are joined now by nbc's chief white house correspondent chuck todd. thanks for joining us tonight. this was a hot pressure cooker press conference and you were in the middle. let's talk about the president's tactic. it looks like he's got one. here he is sticking out his message of defending the middle class today, sticking to it. he practically dared the republicans to hold tax cuts for the middle class hostage. he went back to that word hostage. let's take a look. >> the other option is to pass a law right now that would prevent any tax hike whatsoever on the first $250,000 of everybody's income. i hope republicans in the house come on board, too. we should not hold the middle class hostage while we debate tax cuts for the wealthy. the most important step we can take right now, i think the foundation for a deal that helps the economy, creates jobs, gives consumersty, which means gives consumers confidence they'll have c

do you you think of mcconnell and boehner putting it on the table. >> mitch mccoppell had negative comments after at election. let's not take this to the bank. we have difficult negotiations ahead. what it seems to me has been made clear they will set is a revenue target and find a way to meet it and is it will have to increase some rates. by reducing the number of deductions. there will be significant changes in entitlements and democrats may have is a hard time with that. we may not get there until the end of december. you can imagine going through the negotiations and at the end of december boehner and mcconnell saying let's keep the tack cuts in place while we continue to negotiate. the president has to be firm. >> i completely agree with everything you just said. boehner after the meeting hinted he would be wiling to kick the can down the road and have the temporary solution. >> yeah. >> what would that mean for the markets? what would that mean for his caucus. do you think that's the most likely

to tackle the impending fiscal cliff but the president and the speaker of the house john boehner each drawing lines that they say they will not cross. the major hurdles, that threat to send the economy into a tailspin, that's coming up next. >>> plus a nascar race turning into a full-scale brawl. look at this. mayhem breaking out of the everybody going at it. we'll tell you what set it off. after this. ve lately. but because of business people like you, things are beginning to get rolling. and regions is here to help. making it easier with the expertise and service to keep those wheels turning. from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving forward. so switch to regions. and let's get going. together. jenna: well come back, everyone. now let's return to the economy. the president and house speaker john boehner are suggesting they are willing to compromise to prevent our economy from going over that so-called fiscal cliff but both sides are digging in their heels whether or not to race tax rates for the wealthy. rich edson of the fox business network watching

house? is it john boehner? >> i think the president is the only with one that can sign the agreement. john boehner needs to have an agreement that the house of representatives will pass, and i think whatever the two of them agree on will pass the senate. but expect it will be john boehner working along with the president. i'm sure mitch mcconnell will be very closely involved in the discussions with leader boehner. >> you don't believe a deal should come out of the senate and then be introduced in the house? >> well, i think the elections are over. we need to find solutions to help our country move forward in a positive direction and as the chairman of the joint chiefs of staffs says the biggest threat to our national security is actually our debt. we need to get this spending under control and get people back to work. >> i want to talk about this issue of taxes and tax rates and get you to respond to something from not exactly someone who is known as a liberal thinker here. take a listen. >> it won't kill the country if we raise tax as little bit on millionaires. it really won't, i

boehner today or not? >> no. this was no olive branch, larry. i was quite disappointed with that speech and press conference. and you noted that the stock market really collapsed as president obama was speaking because he seems not just today but the event that he had on friday, the two statements that he's made, he's been pretty emphatic that he wants those tax rates to go up, come hell or high water. that is going to lead to a mexican standoff with the republicans if he sticks with that position. i'd like to make one other point about that press conference, larry. i listened to the whole 45 minutes to 60-minute press conference, and not once that i could hear in that speech did he talk about the most important thing, which is cutting government spending. why don't we get the government spending down and then talk about raising taxes? >> you know, if you google up spending and obama, you know what you get? nothing. blank pages. you get nothing. >> in fact, larry, he said he wants his $100 billion stimulus, he wants more spending when he's talking -- trying to talk about lowering the de

was that john boehner was re-elected as speaker by this republican conference, and they knew that boehner was going to be a dealmaker with the president. so even the hard liners may have read the election returns, and i think even the hard liners don't be responsible for a tax increase. >> not only boehner, even mcconnell. let me show you this, michelle. mcconnell and boehner had a different kind of sound, different tone today after the meeting. watch this. >> obviously the president won re-election. the republicans were basically unable to get any seats in the senate. more people voted for democrats in the house than republicans. why do you have any leverage whatsoever? >> there's a republican majority here in the house. the american people re-elected the republican majority. >> it's important to remember that in this case, the voters also re-elected a republican-controlled house last week. the fact is the government is organized no differently today than it was after the republican wave of 2010. >> now, listen to what they had to say today. >> tomorrow is speaker boehner's birthday. so

the president sat between house speaker john boehner and senate majority leader harry reid calling for cooperation and compromise. >> we've got to make sure that taxes don't go up on middle-class families, that our economy remains strong, that we're creating jobs, and that's an agenda that democrats and republicans and independents, people all across the country, share. so, our challenge is to make sure that, you know, we are able to cooperate together, work together. >> joining me now for more, congressional reporter for "the washington post" ed o'keefe and national journal correspondent nancy cook. good morning both of you. last time we saw those three together, sort of a kumbayah moment when you have reid and boehner and mcconnell together. did you get a sense, ed, putting revenue on the table meant republicans were open to tax hikes for those makes $250,000 or more? >> no, they're not. they still say they don't want to see that increase. by talking about revenues the idea is you close loopholes, find a way to perhaps limit deductions and create revenue that way. but you know, b

cliff that is right in front of us today. >> chris: president obama and speaker boehner sounding up beat friday about prospects for cutting a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff and we're back now with the panel. so, after the president and congressional leaders met at the white house, on friday, the rhetoric was reassuring, the question is, is it real? do you get any sense, bob and this is the subject of your new book, that they really do see, are beginning to see a path to a compromise or are they trying to reassure nervous consumers before the christmas holidays and, investors because the stock market is done a thousand points. >> everyone is nervous about this. this is the last chance and the next six weeks could be six weeks that shook the united states if they don't fix this. there clearly is a new mood but the way they'll solve this, is kind of hostage exchange, in other words, the republicans are determined not to let tax rates go up and the president is determined or is determined to get more revenue and, it is possible to do this and the president is going along, it seems, with it s

house listen to the principles themselves, the president speaker boehner talk about these issues, i would rather be here because this is where so much of the same conversation is going to be taking place, and i get the opportunity today to talk to many of those principles directly involved in those negotiations, what's going to play out of the next couple months. it's a critical time in the country's fiscal history right now, tough decisions to be made. and again, honored. glad somebody people are watching as well over the internet and elsewhere. so we are going to begin some additional conversations here right now. i'm going to be talking about with members of congress but also to erskine bowles and alan simpson there. will he talk with some top economist about some of the choices facing those policymakers, but right now we are joined by one of the principals in the conversation to take place over at the white house in just about an hour or so, and that is gene sperling, the director of the national economic council. so i will invite him out there on the stage. so if gene sperling

and speaker boehner agrees to a rate hike, not just limiting deductions and that sort of thing, what would you think? >>guest: i don't think he will agree to a rate hike. what you are looking at is closing loopholes and limiting deductions and getting revenue from growth combined with entitlement reform and better spending control. >>neil: if it is a rate hike you would not be for that because the president argued earlier this week he doesn't think the numbers are there to get as much from closing loopholes, allowances and the rest than a simple hike in the rate? >>guest: the reality is to get revenue, you need economic growth and by raising rates you hurt economic growth by closing loopholes limiting deductions you make sure that wealthy people pay their fair share. >>neil: you can get a like amount of money from that, senator, than just raising the rate itself? >>guest: that is the real chance to get revenue because you have the kind of tax reform that will stimulate economic growth. if our economy doesn't grow you will not have more revenue even if you raise rates. that combined with spendi

boehner has balked at that idea. it would take away his party's leverage in fiscal cliff issues. >> there's a lot of issues on the table that need to be resolved. i laid out a reasonable framework where both parties can work together and i'm looking forward to meet at the white house on friday and begin that conversation. >> reporter: boehner and other top republicans have proposed eliminating deductions and loopholes that benefit the wealthy instead of raising their tax rates. >> we're not going to hurt our economy and make job creation more difficult, which is exactly what that plan would do. >> reporter: today the president argued closing loopholes alone won't do enough to cut the deficit. they will have that argument face to face with boehner on friday. >> one of the most frequent criticisms we've heard over the past few years from members on both sides is that you haven't done enough to reach out and build relationships. are there concrete ways that you plan to approach your relationships with congress in the second term? >> look, i think there's no doubt i can always do better and i

directly at odds with house speaker john boehner. >> could you accept a deal that does not include tax rate increases for the wealthy? we've seen talk about a possible compromise that could leave rates the same but cap deductions for high-income earners. is that something that's acceptable? >> no. >> not at all no, way? >> no. the preponderance made it very clear in his campaign that there are not enough -- what you just described is a formula and a blueprint for hampering our future. you cannot go forward -- you have to cut some investments. if you cut too many you are hampering growth, you're hampering education, investments for the future. >> and even thousands of miles away it appears president obama is still focused on those negotiations. while touring a royal monastery with secretary of state clinton in thailand the president was overheard mentioning the budget talks to a monk. the president later clarified his comments -- >> he's not any monk. >> no. >> he has some big i vestments in the stock market. >> he later clarified his comments at a news conference. >> yes, we were working on

leadership, go to senate, deal over there and then come to boehner and box him in with a deal and present to it him. >> he also said that boehner may want that, too. boehner still doesn't control his caucus. we don't have to ask what the american people wanted. president obama ran on an explicit program of raising taxes on top earners. and boehner is still talking about the romney plan, mess around with loopholes and take away loopholes from top earners. that was romney's plan and romney lost. the president holds the cards here. the world won't come to an end on january 1st if all the rates expire. it's more of a curve. i think we can afford to go off it. >> we'll see. as we quickly approach it. my thanks to the power panel today. i really appreciate your time today. >>> coming up next, a bipartisan plan to fix the nation's debt. the co-chairs are going to join me, ed rendell and former new hampshire senator judd gregg will join me to talk about this. we want to know what you think. should general petraeus have resigned? tweet me your thoughts about this or find me on facebook. oun] today

he does certainly from the far right of his party. you saw boehner say that the party wants to be led. they want to be led as americans, not republicans. again, i think you have somebody like bill crystal who comes out and says republicans need to be more flexible in terms of talking about tax reform. i think norquist in that clip showed a real misreading of what the election was really about. i prish his use of the word -- >> an odd choice of words. >> poopy head. >> they got a thumping here. this is the first president since ronald reagan to win the popular vote in two consecutive elections. they're trying to deny his legitimacy still. >> not all. >> grover norquist is. >> and speaker boehner has said they're ready to be led. >> thank god for one reasonable person. >> he says he's the most reasonable. >> we'll see what happens in january, though. he has that radical right wing tea party caucus to deal with in the house. i want to see them come to grips with reality. >> great pleasure having you both on. as people continue to suffer in the wake of hurricane sandy, thousands are homel

, including the most important negotiating partner of all a, house speaker john boehner. >> the framework i've outlined in our meeting today is consistent with the president's call for a fair and balanced approach. >> i feel very good about what we were able to talk about in there. >> we're prepared to put revenue on the table, provided we fix the real problem. >> i feel confident that a solution may be in sight. >> and in terms of the nature of that solution, what was discussed in the meeting was a two-step process in which the leaders and the white house first agree on a framework, an amount of deficit reduction it, both tax increases and spending cuts, and then they kicked the filling in of those details into the early months of 2013. they would do that with a legislative mechanism that provides some assurance to the american people and to the financial markets, guys, that those blanks would be filled in by the time they need to to avoid the fiscal cliff. >> very big blanks. okay. thank you very much. david, a couple words we've heard here are hopeful and encouraged. are you feeling more

that nancy -- nancy pelosi and john boehner don't do that? [applause] >> they don't really socialize. one reason that joe might work together, i knew joe and i love him. i wouldn't do anything mean to joe. so that is a lot of it. the times have changed so much. in the senate, one of the problems as they got away from regular order. you send a bill to a committee. you have an oversight hearing, you have an amendment coming u-boat, you go to the full committee and the house and then you go to conference. but they wound up getting a transportation bill. it's a combination of things. modern technology, frankly it is a 24/7 news media. it is the fact that the members leave their families back home. you can't be a good legislator two and half days a week. you have to work at it. the combination of those things, it contributed to the partisanship and the gridlock that we have now. the answer is simple. it is called leadership. men and women of goodwill, conservative liberals, republicans, and the president -- they say it is an easy and we have to get results. >> so i want to come back to that. l

not be surprised. even though the republican majority is a little smaller. and some of the people that boehner lost are moderates and the type of people that would want to cut deals. there may be people as the freshman move into leadership positions. jim langford is making a bid for the policy committee chairmanship, a springboard for a lot of people there seems to be a general calming down among some of the fire breathing. you know there is the potential for mischief on the floor. some of the news reported that the more conservative members of the republican party contemplated now the threshold for bringing down a bill is even smaller that they might not even vote for rules. that potential for mischief. and the people one term in that have now gone through a disappointing election. they have also seen that there are things that they can get done that perhaps they were not able to do in the middle of the debt crisis, making a negotiation. so the tone in the house, i would not be surprised if it racheted down a tiny bit. people are just with a little bit of experience and a few more gray hairs they

, the president took a moment to wish house speaker john boehner a happy birthday. he turned 63 tomorrow. the president congratulated boehner and joked that the white house staff didn't get them a cake because they didn't know how many candles they might need. the president gave boehner a bottle of italian wine as a birthday gift. at least they're talking. >> yes. >> for a birthday, you can talk. >> nice sunshine out there today. >> yeah, we needed to see that sunshine. i think we're going to see a similar day tomorrow. if you liked today, you're going to see another one tomorrow. that comes on an all-important weekend. look outside right now. what you're seeing out there is a pretty nice night. yes, it's on the cool side. you'll need the jacket as you step outside, but other than that, not bad at all. you can deal with the chill. it's going to be a nice evening. 47 degrees the current temperature at the airport. winds out of the north about 7 miles per hour. that breeze, we'll call it a breeze instead of a wind, but that breeze will make things feel a little bit cooler. 37 down towards

point -- that speaker boehner showed yesterday in his remarks. he basically said that the president won the election, and he should lead. he basically, he said that he was open to revenues. which is, which many in his own party disagree with. um, so i thought the tone was the right thing. now, you know, you can't expect the speaker to turn on a dime in 24 hours and embrace everything; higher taxes, higher taxes on the wealthy. but i think that privately he's seen the handwriting on the wall, and it makes me very hopeful that we can do something big in the next month and a half. it's a good first step. um, i would say two things, though, in relation to it. when you unpack the speaker's speech, there is a premise that doesn't quite work, and we're going to have to help him move others in the republican party away from it. it's called -- part of his speech he talked about dynamic scoring. this idea that if you cut taxes, you will increase revenues. well, it's about time we debunked that myth. it's a rumpelstiltskin fairy tale, dynamic scoring. if you may remember, rumpelstiltskin was the f

a split and one of the interesting ways you can follow it has to do with what -- john boehner versus paul ryan. boehner is pushing for conference shame, republican congresswoman rogers while ryan is pushing tom price who used to run the conservative caucus in the house. if most of the caucus is getting behind them then it's a sign they'll dig in their heels. if they're going with boehner, it's a sign they'll deal. >> i want to bring in a democrat on both the armed services committee and select committee on intelligence and the fiscal cliff if i might. do you think the republicans will come to play? >> i believe that they will. it's my hope that everyone has gotten the message loud and clear that the american people expect us to compromise, democrats and republicans coming together to solve the fiscal cliff issue but in a balanced way and that is certainly what president obama has campaigned on protecting a strong middle class, allowing the tax cuts to expire above $250,000, but we can't be afraid to compromise but we can do that without compromising our principles. >> is part of this deal

for the democratic leadership, speaker boehner also intends to stay on, so we'll be seeing some of these elections take place but the big surprise is not a surprise, she's staying put. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell on capitol hill for us. kelly, thanks so much. >>> there is an awful lot happening from capitol hill and during what is expected to be the lame duck session i'll talk with maxine waters next. >>> then just over two hours until the president's news conference, first one difference re-election. what do you think the first question will be? reporters asking about what? tweet me at thomas a. roberts or find me on facebook, thomas a. roberts on msnbc. again? it's embarrassing it's embarrassing! we can see you carl. we can totally see you. come on you're better than this...all that prowling around. yeah, you're the king of the jungle. have you thought about going vegan carl? hahaha!! you know folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than antelope with night-vision goggles. nice! get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you f

.6 trillion in new taxes just isn't serious. it's a joke. a joke. >> house speaker john boehner has been far milder in this rhetoric. according to politico, some house republicans might consider a tax hike on millionaires. many republican lawmakers privately concede that the 2012 election left them far short of a mandate on taxes. and if urged by democrats to raise rates on the megawealthy, they will have a tough time resisting. for the record, president obama's position sounds much more in line with senator sanders' way of thinking. >> there are some tough things that have to be done, but there's a way of doing this that does not hurt middle class families, that does not hurt our seniors, doesn't hurt families with disabled kids. >> let's bring in ruth conif, political editor for the progressive magazine. also with us tonight, e.j. dionne, msnbc contributor, "washington post" columnist and author of the book "our divided political heart." great to have both of you with us tonight. ruth, you first. you know, this could set up to be a moment of real disappointment for liberals if the democrat

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